Help with L/R downmixed outputs


  • I was playing a music (mainly) Blu-ray disc which has 3 selectable audio encodings for the album (XTC's "Oranges and Lemons" remastered CD/Blu-ray set):

    DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 (24 bit / 96kHz)

    LPCM Stereo (24 bit / 96kHz)

    LPCM 5.1 (24 bit / 96kHz)

    Connections in my system:

    - The FL/FL outputs and the stereo-only analog outputs (the RCA jacks between the XLR connections) are connected to my premap (on separate inputs)

    - SL/SR analog outputs are fed to a 2nd amp to drive the rears

    Aren't the stereo-only L/R outs supposed to be a downmix of the multi-channel mix?

    from pg 12 in the manual:

    Independent stereo output ports will automatically down mix multi-track audio source signals into stereo signals, but independent stereo output will not be affected by down mix or menu setting>other speaker setting options of sound processing.

    The wording in the manual after the comma is a bit odd but I took it that the multi-channel speaker configuration settings have no effect on the L/R stereo outputs.  The stereo-only L/R outputs will always be a downmix of the multi-channel track.

    Unfortunately though, the L/R analog downmixed signal seems to ignore the center-channel, the vocals are in the center channel in DTS or LPCM 5.1 and I don't hear them when listening to the L/R outputs.  I also don't hear the vocals in the headphone output.

    Since I don't have a center channel speaker, I swapped the FL signal to my preamp for the player's CEN output, to hear if the vocals are indeed on the center channel.  They are, and it's volume matches what's in the FL/FR signals.

    It's as if a proper downmix isn't happening.    I thought all 5 channels would be mixed into a stereo-only output but I sure do not hear it.

    Of course when I pick 2 channel LPCM track on the disc the vocals are there and as expected in the center of the stereo soundstage.

    As another experiment, I wanted to hear if the FL/FR and L/R stereo-only outputs had different audio on them (that is, the vocals were there but at lower level than when in LPCM stereo).  I switched between the two sets of signals in my preamp, I hear zero difference between FL/FR and L/R.  Again, that doesn't seem right, I should hear some difference in the vocals between thet two.

    Same lack of vocals is heard through the headphone jack, no vocals when using the 5.1 tracks.

    How my player's audio is configured:

    Spdif: disabled

    HDMI: bitstream

    Max Sampling Frequency:  96kHz

    DRC: On

    SACD Output: DSD

    SACD Priority: Multi-channel

    DVD Audio Mode: DVD Audio

    I've had some issues with this player, last month the optical drive was replaced and with the new drive the player is still kind of flaky at times (in particular when I try to go back to the top menu of a bluray or 4k disc, at times the player locks up).  I hope there's not another issue with it.



  • @Thomas Mathes Thomas, what is your downmix set to in the speaker settings? If it isn't stereo, the player will not downmix it. 

    Your player was tested by the engineering team thoroughly after your optical drive was replaced, including with the discs you shipped with the player and it performed without issue across every diagnostic and output test available. 

    As you were working directly with the tech team and an engineer with this player, it is recommended that you continue to utilize that path vs. posting on the forums as they have the history of your player from the moment it was manufactured until it left our service center. 


  • Ok, will do.

    Downmix setting; I assume meaning the Speaker Configuration?  I have it set to 5.1 channel, the subwoofer is turned off.  Unfortunately I don't have a center channel, that's when I switched on the L/R analog out and the vocals were still missing.

    My question stills stands, isn't the analog L/R outputs a downmix from multi-channel to stereo?  That's what the manual describes, at least that's how I interpret it.

    Do I file a new ticket or just tack on the above to the email chain from my previous ticket?


  • @Thomas Mathes Thomas, if you wish for stereo output, you go into MODE and set it to Stereo. 


  • Sorry but that's not what I asking about, my query was strictly about the 2 analog outputs between the XLR outputs.

    From the manual:

    going from the highlighted portion, those outputs are supposed to be hard-coded/wired to mix everything to 2 channels.

    I'm contacting support directly since the above description isn't what is going on with my player.


  • Thomas, you need to set the DOWNMIX to STEREO in the speaker settings section. The analog outputs will do whatever that setting tells them to do. 


  • So the L/R channels do NOT automatically downmix is what you're saying?  In other words, they're not any different than the FL/FR outputs?

    The manual states the opposite, that the L/R outputs are automatically downmixed to stereo and aren't affected by menu settings.  If they are the manual has a big flaw in how the hardware acts.


  • Thomas, if you owned an 800, the downmix would be automatic as there's only 2 analog RCA channels out. With a 900, as there 8 channels with 8 analog RCA outs,  you must assign the proper output channel configuration in the player in order to have an analog downmix, whether its 2 channel, 6 channel or 8 channel.

    If you're connecting to a stereo amp via analog, either by RCA or XLR, you want the player outputting stereo, not multichannel if it's multichannel analog capable.


  • I contacted support directly a while ago to get this sorted out. 

    The manuals says those 2 outputs, which I circle in screen shots below, are always downmixed stereo (like the UDP-800 is).  It's one of the big reasons I bought this player than a much cheaper player.

    What you're stating is diametrically the opposite of the UDP-900 owner's manual.

    From pg 6 of the 900's manual:

     

    and pg. 12 of the same manual:

     


  • Thomas, if you want stereo out of the analog of a 900, set the MODE to stereo in the speaker settings. That image reflects the player analog outputs and is there by example.

    Page 15 of the manual reflects your 900, the rear panel of your 900 and addresses this concern specifically. 

     

     

    Thank You


  • That's not addressing the separate L/R outputs and what they really are.

    I'm connecting the L/R signals to a 2 channel premap.  The manual states those are always downmixed to stereo.

    That portion of the manual refers to the FL/FR outputs, not the same thing as my original question.


  • Thomas, 

    The resolution to your issue is as follows.

    Please access MODE in the SPEAKER SETTINGS of the OSD and select whatever mode you wish the output settings of the player to reflect, be it L/R, STEREO, 5.1, or 7.1. Firmware changes have updated many aspects of the player since the manual was published and you will find this is the solution you are seeking as we have recommended.


  • Sorry but this is misleading customers, big time.  It's not a trivial feature to have it's function, documented in the manual, completely changed in it's operation.  I wanted to use the L/R downmixed analog outs to compenate for the lack of a center channel in multi-channel recordings that use the center channel.

    I can't do that.  And I bought this player due to such features which now I find dont' work as advertised.  No where is it documented this function went away.  I lost the digital delay feature and now this?

    So what are the L/R and XLR outputs then?  Just replicas if FL/FR?


  • Thomas -

    In order to support you, we need answers to our questions. 

    What is the result of both FL/FR analogs and L/R analogs when you change the setting to L/R in the SPEAKER SETTINGS. We've not stated this feature has gone away anywhere. We've stated that firmware changes can cause the manual to be outdated and methods may change as to settings and functions. 

    Please answer our question so we can assist you further as there's assumptions that appear to be being made that are inaccurate. Without your feedback and direct answer to our question, we cannot assist you.

    Also, to confirm, you are using both the 2 channel analog and 7.1 channel analog simultaneously?

    Without your input, we have no way to escalate an issue. Thus, our request continues to be: Go into MODE and change the settings and let us know if that resolves the channel assigment issue.

     


  • For some reason my previous post did not take.

    Switching the player's Speaker mode setting to 'stereo' did make the L/R channels to properly downmix the multi-channel track. 

    That's counter to the manual description or any documentation I can find.  It's always supposed to do this.

    The FL/FR outputs also downmix but that's to be expected, they're multi-channel outputs and that's exactly how they're supposed to work as stated in the manual.   That part works as intended.

    What about the XLR outs, are they downmixed stereo? 

    Please also note the headphones do not output downmixed stereo either, I thought they were always supposed to be that way.  They are acting exactly like the analog L/R outputs, that is, missing the center-channel downmixing.

    And also note I do not use the FL/FR signals at the same time as the L/R signals.  My preamp can only select one or the other.  Also, HDMI is connected to my TV (via HDMI1 on the player), the TV's eARC output is connected to the soundbar.  I was using the TV while playing the bluray, I needed it to navigate the disc's menu.  the soundbar was muted during the entire time.


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